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Ohhhh rs! I think we’re experiencing some sort of mis~communication here! As pleasantly and politely as your “Thanks” may be expressed….I regret to inform you that I did not offer to “assist” you in rubbing your crystal balls. What I did offer however was a suggestion on how to accomplish such a task with the greatest possible ~return~!!! You do wanna get the most out of life don't ya??? *S*

Now for the other matter!

O.k.! I realize that you ended your post as though it were a final summation on the entire issue….however ….let’s really put the cards on the table. In all actuality it was not a final summation at all! All it really was, was a strongly stated departure ~wrapped up~ in summation clothing! While I do acquiesce on the point that legally, morally and spiritually…. you most assuredly have every right and privelige… to bring to conclusion….your part in any discussion… any given point in time….and space! We also both know however that you do not have the legal, moral or spiritual rights and priveliges to bring to conclusion MY part of a discussion! So….in light of that…..and in lieu of the content of your personal summation (???) ….I hereby state that I’m choosing to exercise my options by continuing this discussion and addressing some of the points you made.

Now…do I want to have a conversation all by myself??? Of course not! (It would also be impossible by virtue of the definition of what a “conversation” is!) Anyway….To continue on without the input of another would be either ridiculous or insane….and I assure you that I am neither! So…in all probability…if you stand behind your decision to say no more on the matter….this will be MY last stand on it as well. (At least with You! *S*) However……should you decide to reconsider…then I may also have to reconsider! *S*

Sooooo basically speaking~~~>The ball is in your court kid! Or should I say balls???

Ahahahahhahahaha (What a perfect cliché for this situation! *ROTFLOL*) Balls??? Court??? Too perfect! *LOL*

Anyway….back to the matter of Astrology and it’s validity and veracity!

You use as your platform for discounting it the following: “The reason is that I was introduced to the scientific method and the rational process”. Hummmm scientific method you say??? Rational process??? Uh Uh Uh!!! I don’t think so! Perhaps you’re rusty and in need of a re~aquaintance with it all! *S* For someone who’s foundation is “logic” and “reason”….you have made some very obvious errors! I shall explain as we go along!

O.k.! So you haven’t read all of the authorities I cited (and for the record…yes, they are weighty!) ….and you haven’t studied Astrology in any way, shape or form. HOWEVER……to attempt to equate something which you have openly admitted is unknown territory to you ...with the likes of “street-corner preachers and street-fair tarot card, crystal, and palm readers” is QUITE an invalid leap of “theory” and/or “logic”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since you’ve stated that your early beginnings were in logic (as were mine) I’ll bring forth an oldy….and a goody for us to reminisce and reflect upon! *S* Do you remember the old P/Q stuff?????? While I realize that your forte is Law and mine Engineering….I’m sure that the “logic” we both studied was the same! YES?? I mean….it’s only “logical” right???? *S*

O.k.! The first theory of logic is referred to as an If/Then Statement. It’s presented as follows: If P (p being the “theory”) …then Q (Q here being a conclusion) Now! The theory….goes on to say that given “P” as TRUE…..”Q” is then also true. All of this is by virtue of LOGIC!

Perhaps that’s a bit too nebulous for a non-mathematician! Not a problem! I’ll put it all in non Mathematical terms!

IF I wake up early….THEN I won’t have to run for the bus.

I woke up early.

Logical Conclusion????? I didn’t have to run for the bus.

O.k.! You still with me????

I want you to pay close attention to the P/Q aspect of it all! Nowhere in the equation does an X,Y,Z,L or any other letter for that matter….jump out at you!!!!!

In layman’s terms that means that just because what you perceive Astrology to be in the league of “fortune-tellers” and such….does that mean that they are! AND….furthermore I can submit that not only are your perceptions invalid logically…but that upon request I can submit substantial information to refute it….both in quality as well as quantity. I will warn you in advance however that it is quite technical and mathematical ….for the newbie! Perhaps however you’re a ~quick~ learner though! I do so try keep an open mind!

Now….moving on to another of your “logic” violations!

You stated: “The rational process requires the proponent of a proposition to accept the burden of proving it.” HA! This is not true either!!!!! I’m quite sure that Carl Sagan has not “proved” each and every aspect of this findings to you! What has most likely happened is that ON OCCASION he submitted various “proofs” and somewhere inside of you…you have made either a conscious or a subconscious decision to consider what he “claims” to be true and valid...AS "true" and "valid". While for the most part I’m sure this method of preliminary “testing” and subsequent acceptance can “work”……LOGICALLY speaking it’s UNPURE! Not only can that mode of operation become the foothold of incorrect conclusions …but in certain circumstances…..dubious or unscrupulous ones as well.

Let’s be honest! In all likelihood….you have never personally “met” Carl Sagan nor have you studied his works in depth! That you “trust” what emanates from him is for all intents and purposes TRUST on your part!!!! Your relationship with him is a pyschological bond….not a “logical” one!

Don’t believe me???? Read on! *S*

I’m sure you’ve heard of Albert Einstein! Right? *S* Well….If you ever get the chance….read his biography. It’s facinating! Young Einstein was, for all intents and purposes self-taught. Now why is that????? *S* Well, I think most of us know why! It’s a matter of history! He took Physics man knew it then….and turned it upside down! He taught himself because he SAW MORE…..KNEW MORE….UNDERSTOOD MORE!!!! He had a perspective that those around him did not have! Does that mean that someone won’t come after him to amend his findings??? No! Of course not! That’s possible too! BUT… cannot deny that BECAUSE he personally challenged that which was put before him….”PHYSIC” evolved!

Now….I’m not trying to imply nor intimate that Carl Sagan (or anyone else for that matter) is operating in a dubious fashion by establishing a platform of trust with others….however….I am saying that without FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE of the topic ourselves…

….the potential IS there!

O.k.! Least there be any confusion here….I will reiterate.... for the record... that the basis of your respect for Carl Sagan et al is ACTUALLY a Pyschological manifestation and not a “logical” one. AND…..moving on with that exact same point in logic ….I now submit for the record as well ...that in like form it is for a PYSCHOLOGICAL reason (and not a logical one)….that you connect Astrologers with “fortune tellers” et al…..and also that you immediately and without knowledge, dismiss their validity.

Unless of course they taught “logic” differently in PS29???? I myself happened to be a PS30 girl and I was able to turn all that I learned there into a foundation for Engineering! Or don’t you “believe” in Engineering either! *S*

I must also take issue with your statement that: “The proponent cannot duck this obligation by asking the challenger to disprove the proposition.” My response???? I have INDEED offered ….MANY TIMES in fact……to look at the charts of the "regulars" here!!!! I have even done some too! (And BTW those whose charts that I have looked at remain a private matter.) Anyway, I've ALWAYS ~owned~ up to “the challenge”! However! I’ve gotta ask you something! Did you ask old CARL the same thing???? I mean....did you ever ask him to see his data???? Did you ever look at his "work" notes????

I betcha didn’t! *S*

Soooo! I leave you now with one parting phrase:

Ner Ner Ner Ner Ner~~~~~~~

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